Posts by Doubting Bro

3

Robotic Elders - Then and Now question.l..

by james_woods in

jw
friends

i would assume that there a few of us here who are ex-elders...i am at least one, having resigned the "commision" in about 1981 and left the jw world shortly after.. here is my question: do present-day elders live under a greater degree of control from the society (circuit/district overseer, etc) than we used to in my day?.

i never really felt like we were being put under a "microscope" back in the 1975 to 1980 era - but now i read a lot of comments about how paranoid the society has become, and that maybe even the elders feel that they are under the thumb of the ever-present "big brother" wt society.. just my imagination, or have things actually become more controlling, even for the local elders?.

Doubting Bro

From the big house, there are BOE letters that control every single aspect of congregation activity. From how the meetings are conducted to how the files are kept and everything in-between. Of course, its probably always been that way since this is such a high control organization.

Practically, it really depends on the CO. The DOs hammer the COs but I've had COs that were completely anal and others (usually older ones) that were actually much more laid back. There seems to be a direct correlation between the CO age and the level of micromanagement. The younger they are, the more likely they are to be heavily involved in every detail.

I've also seen COs order elders to sack each other, which was an eye-opening experience. He didn't want to get his hands dirty so he spoke to people individually on the BOE to have the guy removed.

So, I think the pressure has been ramped up on the local BOEs who in turn ramp up the pressure on the congregation. The good news is that I think the number of elders getting discouraged and resigning is increasing. No one is there to take their place which increases the pressure on the remaining elders and they take it out on the congregation, which discourages them and causes them to slow down.

15

High propaganda Dec 15th WT study articles - the end is nigh!!

by yaddayadda in

(could someone kindly format this for me into paragraphs where i have put a [ as i use mozilla firefox).

probably already been threads about these, but major puke alert with the first and third study articles in the dec 15th 2006. the society are really ramping up the doomsday rhetoric with these.

[the first study article is entitled "the great day of jehovah is near".

Doubting Bro

Also, the latest CO visit talk had the theme of Sowing Bountifully, Reaping Bountifully and put the full court press on not becoming casual (similar wording to one of the DC parts this summer). The last portion of the part really nailed the field service, meeting treadmill as the only way to gain salvation. Its funny because this congregation is above the national average in service time and better than most I've seen in meeting attendence. Yet, its not enough. It's never enough.

He did mention that the end is extremely close and said that was what the tract campaign was all about (right, it wasn't about getting the rank & file all riled up and out in service).

Most of the comments were the usual blah, blah, blah. I'll be posting the commentary from the elder/ms meeting in the next few days.

43

JW Children and the absence of Christmas

by Clam in

jw
friends

ive just collected my 6 year old son from school.

he sat in the back of the car and told me about a little girl from the year above him who has to leave her classroom and sit in his due to christmassy things going on.

my youngster remarked "she doesnt believe in christmas.

Doubting Bro

It was never a big deal to me. I always liked being different and felt superior because of it. I'm a bit of a contrarian anyway and always seem to be in the minority on many issues. Probably just part of my dysfunctional peronality!

I would go to either the principal's office and work (seriously, filing, taking down bulletin boards, just hanging out with the principal) or go to the library. Funny thing, I think being a JW kid and being forced to interact with adults on a regular basis at the KH helped me to forge good relationships with the teachers/princpal and most of my teachers would stick up for me. I was a pretty good student and never caused them grief, so that helped. As a matter of fact, the one teacher that really hated the JWs got reamed by my principal (who was a great guy).The time spent being the only JW kid in that school taught me some valuable lessons that I carry with me.

I'm sure I would have enjoyed the celebrations, but don't think it had any major impact on me.

34

What effect does 'Apostate Pressure' have on the bOrg?

by AK - Jeff in

will increased pressure - pickets, websites, books, letters to fellow witnesses, have a positive or negative impact on the ultimate goal most apostates have - seeing the organization eventually crumble and fall?.

my take is that more pressure is good.

it makes the 'real personality' of the organization express itself in greater oppression, more demands, greater efforts to isolate the flock from education, career, family, reality.. eventual result of oppression is rebellion.

Doubting Bro

All good points. I believe that the media is having a huge impact, especailly on the pedo cases. Personally, I've always had doubts about various things, but nothing that would have lead to me leaving or even researching sites such as this one. However, the media exposure about pedo cases and me doing other news searches which lead me to the UN thing was the tipping point for me. I thought, if the "apostates" were right about these two things, what else are they right about? After all, truth can withstand anything. The problem is that the WTS isn't teaching the truth and thus many of its doctrines (especially the key 1914) fall by the wayside.

I think the religion will eventually fade as a footnote in religious history, but I doubt any of us see it. But, what we will see is the continued, steady decline as older loyal members die off and very few new recruits come in. But, the pressure can really help those in the 30-60 year range escape. That may hasten the decline since the majority of those in local leadership are in that age cateogry.

26

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-3-06 WT Study (PROVE YOUR FAITH)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 12-03-06 wt study (10-15-06 issue, pages 23-27)(prove your faith).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

Doubting Bro

I find it very ironic that the same folks that blast the Pharisees for making up all the rules around the Law have the audacity to do the exact same thing!! I actually laughed out loud several times when I first read the article. My wife & I made fun of the Kingdom Melodies comment. Are they serious? HAHAHAHA.

Also, there was one particularly annoying sister (an elderette who has an IQ of about 80) who made the comment about how "the society calls get-togethers gatherings instead of parties. Because everyone knows that those wordly parties end up with everyone drunk or doing drugs" Seriously, she said that. The demonization of everything non-JW is truly unbelievable.

When you think of proving your faith, do you think of how you organize a social gathering, a wedding, a reception or giving/receiving wedding gifts.

No, not at all. It is amazing how they can take these petty rules and someone turn them into being faithful to God. But, as we all know, faith in God = listening to what the WT says. Just another example.

The paragraph about the director of the feast also seems to me to be a complete misrepresentation about what happened at that wedding. In reading the context, it seems this director of the feast was acting more like the catering manager than a chaperone. It doesn't seem that he was a volunteer to make sure that everyone behaved themselves and even compared the wine Jesus made to other weddings that he's been involved with. The assumption that he was a Christian is a very big stretch. He was likely a Jew since the Jews didn't hang out with Gentiles, but if he was hired, it could be possible that he wasn't even Jewish. And, that wasn't even the point of the passage anyway!!

I've personally been asked several times to serve in that capacity and always turned it down. By the way, we didn't have one for our wedding, the wordly DJ actually ran the receiption (GASP).

Blondie, enjoyed your review as always. In the past, I've tried to incorporate some of your comments into the study, but honestly I can't bring myself to comment anymore for fear of blowing up.

41

Did leaving the borg ruin your marriage

by Billzfan23 in

jw
friends

has anyone else here left the borg and had it go over like a lead ballon, ruining their marriage?

mine is quickly heading that way.

i have been married for about a decade, and have a couple of kids - both in grade school.

Doubting Bro

While I'm probably in no position to give anyone advice, that's never stopped me before

Perhaps its just too much, too fast for her? You went from an elder going gung-ho to stepping aside to coaching your kid's basketball team in what, a month? I actually admire your decisiveness since I'm moving extremely slow.

Maybe you need to back off just a touch and give her some time to process things. Especially if she's a lifelong JW. Everyone takes things at a different pace.

Really, though, you know your wife the best. Follow your gut.

13

A Ghost from the past

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

a ghost from the past .

an ugly fight between two friends can damage a friendly relationship.

almost irreparably.

Doubting Bro

Perhaps he's come to the conclusion that your right after all? I'm willing to bet that your conversations with him sparked research. And, once that horse leaves the barn, there is really no turning back.

53

JWs in world politics: Jehovah's Witnesses Are "Politically" Neutral - NOT

by Dogpatch in

http://www.osce.org/odihr/16533.html.

so, you say that jehovah's witnesses aren't "political" or take any part in the affairs of the world?

http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2006/10/21654_en.pdf what does the watchtower say about "political" involvement?

Doubting Bro

I wish I could say I'm suprised but I'm not. I noticed that not only are they going to their conferences (with folks that want to work through the politicial process even though the big A is "very, very close") but did you notice that Mr. Gillet is the CHAIRMAN of the Religious Freedom Subcommittee?? And Mr. Toffoli is also a member of that Subcommittee.

I can tell you that if a r&f were that involved with a political action group or lobbying group, they would be forced to resign or be df'ed.

Wow, what a hypocritical organization. I know their excuse would be that they are just working to "legally defend & establish the good news". But, I don't seem to recall the scripture where Paul or the other apostles joined lobbying groups to try to convince the Roman Emperor to chill out with the persecution or to give Christians the right to legally worship. They use the scripture about legally defending the truth yet Paul was referring to being hauled in front of various governmental bodies, not working through them to affect change. At least, that's what the WTS teaches. I guess its the case of do as I say, not as I do.

Did they not think they would get caught? Or has the fact that they've been able to surpress the UN NGO thing so well (I'll bet 95% of JWs have no idea), that they've become brazen? It's probably because they simply don't care. They'll df anyone who says anything about it just like the NGO deal.

On the plus side, it sure makes it easier for me to push myself away from this mess!

33

KHAA, reasn Watchtower is afraid of Kingdom hall related lawsuits (mishaps)

by DaCheech in

unlike any other business or homeowener in which we go out and buy insurance, the watchtower self insures itself.. each year all congregations sent a check through the wefts system for $4.5 for each publishers they have.

this money goes to the watchtower, and is kept as khaa or kingdom hall assistance arrangement.

any time fire, vandalism, or mishaps happen the kingdom hall supposedly sends the bill to the watchtower, and they will help with this bill (of course all labor will be done pro bono through regional building committe).

Doubting Bro

Not sure why this would be considered that big of a deal. Many large corporations are self insured and I would imagine the WTS is purchasing insurance for liability & property at some very high level. When you have the spread of risk they have, it makes sense for them to self insure. The "premium" reasonable and yes, they say it is voluntary. Local congregations can opt out and purchase their own insurance, but its more economical to go thru the KHAA.

The comment about why the KH can't be used for many activities is a very valid one. I'm not sure how their claims handling is because I've never known anyone who has collected. Generally, the locals will fix the damage themselves and only call on the KHAA if the bill is too big. What would be interesting to find out is how much they collect vs how much is paid out and if they surcharge certain congregations that have claims.

38

As an Elder I believe JW's have the Truth

by JWFreak in

jw
friends

i also believe in santa clause and that david beckham has a phd.

seriously though, i have only been here a short while but it has been more than enough to convince me to hand in my resignation.

i have telephoned our sec, and told him that i am stepping down.

Doubting Bro

JW Freak,

Congrats. You're not a coward. Your reasons for resigning a voluntary postion should not be of concern to anyone. So, don't feel bad about giving them the stress/depression reason. It's probably true anyway. I know it is for me and I've been playing that card for several months now to set the stage (probably will be doing the same thing next month).

Of course, the sec will be call the PO who will in turn set up a meeting with you & the entire BOE. Stay the course with the stress depression reason. I'm sure most of them will be able to relate. Tell them you can't be of encouragement to the friends the way a good shepherd should because of the depression and therefore its the "right" thing to do to step down.

I really think if you go out the nonconfrontational way, they won't pressure you as much.